Open forum regarding creating more consistency across the division. Topic from Spring Seminar
Submitted by DA_FC on March 10, 2008 - 10:22pm.
Welcome,
At the postponed/cancelled Spring Seminar Ronda (Deputy DA) and I were really hoping to begin a discussion that would result in greater consistency in flagging and communication across the division. Since the bad weather has prevented that discussion we were hoping that this forum would be a good venue for it. Please feel free to respond to the attachment in this forum or to the attachment emailed to all F&C license-holders for whom I have valid emails. Please note that while viewing is open to everyone you must register to the forum to respond or comment.
Regards,
Verne Wandell, DA, F&C for GLDiv
Ronda Knapp, Deputy DA
| Attachment | Size |
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| Spring Seminar for F&C Forum.pdf | 80.08 KB |
Pass under yellow
I would like to see SCCA adopt the FIA method of using a green flag at the station after the incident to allow passing. While the chance of two incidents happening at the same corner station is small, it will tell the driver when he can begin safely passing. It also adds consistancy to flag use among the sanctioning groups.
Pass under yellow
I would also like to see that rule change however there have been many in the past who have argued against it. I know that in the days when I was doing a lot of pro races that was common for all the different venues. I always felt safer and also felt that the drivers had a much clearer understanding of what was expected of them. Currently you just have to have the flexibility to know that when you are flagging a club race it is one way and when you are flagging any other event it is the other but - those are the rules.
I heard early last season that the comp board had approved NAUFS but decided not to provide an implementation date. I was never able to find that substantiated in print. I asked the NA if that was on the horizon for this season and she told me it was not.
Car Pooling
Perhaps there are some workers who would attend if they could get a ride to the track, and a place to spend the night.
Could we work out a volunteer system, (website, spring workers's party, prize points, Waterford Worker's hours), where people interested in attending and people with space to take extra riders / campers could meet and make weekend arrangements?
Best Regards,
Jeff Getchell
Car Pooling
Hi Jeff,
I agree that car pooling will become more important as gas prices rise. There are several websites that have forums and there is usually someplace on your club's site that allows some sort of posting. There is a forum on MTM and, of course, this one. Talk to your region's web master if your region's site has no place to post notes, classifide ads or a forum spot.
This posting could serve as a general spot to look for fellow gypsys throughout the season or you could start one for each race you want to attend and others might do the same. As for places to stay, perhaps motel or campers could be shared or those near a given track might respond. I don't know how that might work but maybe others will have a suggestion.
Regarding car pooling, I
Regarding car pooling, I suggest that a week or two before the event, that someone (the event flag chief, maybe) post a message on various forums askng that anyone willing to give rides post their general departure location and time. Folks looking for rides could scan the messages and see who to contact.
Covering Workers with Yellow
Per the E-mail from Verne: GCR 5.5.4 B. Location
"The yellow flag shall be displayed when a corner worker or other personnel move to a less protected area." We need to emphasize that, and also find a way to discuss it. I was helping with a workers' school last year and got into a related disagreement about that with the Flag Chief (who shall remain nameless). He insisted that flag condition - waving or stationary - was governed solely and completely by the position of the car and not the workers who were responding.
I argue that, if you would go stationary yellow for a worker not on track, but in an exposed position, it makes perfectly good sense to go waving yellow if you have workers at a car that is near the track, even though not actually on the track. I sure as hell would want that done if I were the exposed worker. Stuff happens. A driver in his car, parked at the edge of the track at least has the rollcage, helmet, fire suit, etc. The worker standing next to the car is protected only by the car (we hope) and sometimes even that is not possible. If another car makes contact with the stopped car, and even if it even if it missed the responding workers, somebody could still get hit by flying pieces/parts.
Remember, way back when, as you were being trained in F&C, hopefully somebody told you that your first responsibility was to keep yourself safe and then to see to the safety of your crew. Then worry about the driver. Cars and spectators come somewhere down the line after that.
I like to think that drivers will get themselves a little more under control if the yellow flag is waving rather than stationary - at least most of them will.
Joe Pakovits
Covering Workers with Yellow
Here's my two cents.
First, were you at an SCCA event when the chief wanted the flag waved only for the car? If you were not then I have no idea what their rules are - I just know I don't want to play with that guy. If it was an SCCA event he was wrong. As you point out the GCR states this as a rule ("shall be displayed"). The method of display is covered by our manual. "Wave the flag if the impediment is on the racing surface and hold the flag if it is off" Here is the problem I see with your approach. What we do with the flags is communicate - there must be a consistant message that the flag conveys. The piece of cloth won't protect anyone, it is the information it passes on that is important. To my mind a standing flag means you should NOT have to change your line. A waving flag means you can expect to have to change your line. Now I do concede that when I am at a station where the obvious normal path of the cars has nothing to do with where the designer placed the pavement (exit of 6 at GingerMan, the esses at 5a at Grattan) I will wave the flag for anything that is in - or VERY close too - the agricultural surface everybody seems to use. Again, they may have to change their line.
In all of this discussion it is the message that the drivers get that is most important. We will all have safer events when the flags are used consistently.
Joeflags
Per Verne's e-mail: "Spin under the yellow flag: Car is not under control, same as pass under yellow."
If that is true and the Stewards interpret it that way, then we sure as hell ought to call that in. I've never heard such a call. Maybe we ought to mention it at workers' meetings. Note: I do remember a red flag coming out during an event where a new track record was set under a full course yellow - hurray for the steward who did that!
Joe Pakovits
Joeflags
By all means, call it in.
Every year the exec steward's operating letter changes. This is a statement to all the operating stewards on how this year's events should be run and the penalties that will generally be incurred for various infractions. I don't know how many of you have seen these letters before but this year's is posted on this site. I have personally called in more than one car for lack of control under a local yellow in my time as a flagger. Everyone should. The stewards will decide what to do about it. Thank goodness we aren't often presented a situation where that is necessary.
Calls as to Trailing White
Can't overemphasize how important it is to: a) Call when you go white, and why; b) Call if you spot the "slow car" and it has resumed racing speed; or, c) Mention in your call that this was the car we were following, if it pulls off.
Joe Pakovits